Privacy Please
Tune into "Privacy Please," where hosts Cam and Gabe engage with privacy and security professionals around the planet. They bring expert insights to the table and break down complicated tech stuff everyone can understand.
Privacy Please
S6, E231 - Addressing Apple's Controversial Privacy Update in New iOS
Apple’s recent iOS update has raised serious privacy concerns by enabling AI tools that monitor user behavior without consent. The episode emphasizes the urgent need for users to disable invasive settings while questioning Apple's commitment to privacy amidst its marketing claims.
• Examination of the AI features in the latest iOS update
• Default settings that allow data collection on app usage
• Discussion on Apple's reputation versus actual practices
• Potential consequences for users who are unaware of these changes
• Speculation on how this may affect Apple's market share
• Exploration of the need for privacy-focused technology alternatives
• Encouragement to take action by adjusting privacy settings
Go turn off all those privacy-invasive settings on your device.
Go turn off all those damn privacy invasive settings in your device. Man, you've got seven days to do it. Make it happen, do it now.
Speaker 2:Three, two, one. Now Do it All right. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Privacy Plans. Cameron Ivey here alongside Mr Gabe Gumbs. Gabe, how we doing, man, how we doing, we are doing, well, how are you doing? I be doing good, my friend, I'm doing good. Right on right on right on. I don't know about these Apple users, though, man. In case you missed it, gabe, why don't you give us a little background on what we just discovered, or what everybody just discovered?
Speaker 1:I don't know if everyone's discovered it yet, but certainly a lot of people have. I discovered it from Heidi Sass earlier today and I was like wait what? So we've been told that Apple Intelligence Suite was coming to iOS products soon. It's a suite of local AI tools, and I suspect that local AI tools is why Apple is going to say that what I'm about to say next isn't really a problem, but what they did they being Apple is in the latest iOS update. Those intelligence tools were installed, but they also enabled automatically the ability for those AI tools to capture and analyze how you're using applications. It turned this on by default for all of your applications. It automatically opted you in by default have AI analyze your app behavior. Now again, presumably these are supposed to be local apps, local models that are running right, which is to say, the models are running on your device. They're not running like on Apple's hardware and their services.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to tell you I do not know enough about, sure, the models may run locally, but I do not know enough about where the data goes after. I know some data is on the phone. Is it all still in the phone? I don't want it at all, though is the problem? Why did I not get the choice to have any application start monitoring all of my behavior across all of my applications, of my behavior across all of my applications? This might be the single largest privacy of the last few years. In my opinion, it's kind of shitty. Honestly, it's really shitty. Maybe I'm being a little hyperbolic. There certainly were massive privacy problems in the last few years, but this is problematic. Yeah, especially-. What the hell, apple? What in the world are you smoking?
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe we need to know. Whatever it is man, I have that confidence, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:If you start selling that instead of my data, maybe you get rich that way, because they're on something, they're on something and it's wrong.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, thanks for the fart noise, because now I don't have to insert it, hey-o, I appreciate that. That saves me on editing. Yeah, I agree, this is very, very sneaky, very, very sneaky, sir, very sneaky, but I mean, honestly, I'm not surprised. I don't think you are either, but maybe you are. Maybe you are a little bit about it. It's AI too. It's not like I've always had an inkling that our cameras and our microphones on all devices have always been somewhere that allow for that kind of behavior to happen.
Speaker 1:We know that there's software that is sold to less than trustworthy governments that use these tools to spy on individuals all over the place. We know that that is a truth. We know that cameras can be turned on and the green light can be disabled so that you don't even know it's on. We know microphones can be turned on. We know all of these things are true. We know that those things are true in the context of bad guys doing bad guy things. Got it Good Right.
Speaker 1:But you know, presumably Apple's been touting itself as the privacy good boy. In fact, they've spent millions and millions of dollars on ad campaigns and the like to tell us that. So they were just like silently doing all this good stuff altruistically, like, hey, look at us, we are very respectful of your privacy. They wanted to let you know about their altruism. They wanted you to see their name on the check. But then, as was always suspected, that is indeed a competitive advantage for them and little more than such to make those claims. How they carry those claims is a whole different story, and the way they're carrying this claim right now fumble straight fumble Is the everyday user that's not really in the know of this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, the everyday user's screwed, the everyday user's screwed. You think my mother's even going to know about this, hear about this, and even if she does, you think she's going to go through her phone every single app and disable this like every single. Well, so now I know how I got to spend my weekend. Thanks, Apple, not that I don't love spending time with my mother, but thanks Apple.
Speaker 2:And now to your mom's point. Let's use her as an example. Thanks, mom. What is it like if she were to find out? What is she like? Is she even going to understand the severity of?
Speaker 1:I think she might but she'd probably also struggle with the. So what part of it? It's like yeah, but how does that impact me? Right? Because it's hard to put the dots together when it's kind of abstracted away from how it impacts you directly. She'll understand it once explained to you. Know, like, I think, any other reasonable person of intelligence, right, or you know, forget one's intelligence. Reasonable person of intelligence, right, forget one's intelligence. I think everyone understands the analogies of someone just walked into your house, opened all of your blinds and put a camera up to the window without your asking. Wait, that hasn't happened to you yet, mate. I welcome it. All I ask is for a positive Yelp review. Is it too much to ask? Just leave five stars. If you like what you see, just go ahead and leave me a review. If you don't like what you see, as Cam would say, 10, you weren't in, that's it. Just keep it moving.
Speaker 2:You don't have to say anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then you didn't hear it, then you didn't see it. You don't like what? Otherwise, five stars.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, so this is, yeah, this is annoying because, like you said, this takes, you've already done yours, from what I've understood.
Speaker 1:I've done it on one of my iOS devices. I happen to own multiple iOS devices. The whole family has iOS devices. They're up there all over the place and, for what it's worth, I wasn't always an iOS man. I used to be a hardcore Android fan and I switched for various reasons that were all in the category of the ecosystem of other people around me and other technology I was using and some of it, ease of use, et cetera, even some of the security functions, or, I'd argue there were some areas where Apple was better than Android. Only because, if anything, android is so very open to end user. It's very flexible for an end user to customize. That customization also means you can cut your hand on the sharp edges that it has. But I can tell you the following After today, I am 100% starting the process to switch as many of my devices out of the iOS ecosystem.
Speaker 1:I'm not even being hyperbolic. I've been meaning to do it for some time. All this has done is accelerated for me. That being said, I'm already hyper-privacy focused. You're already hyper-privacy focused. We're not the ones that are really going to get affected by this. It's mom and dad right, those are the ones that are going to get affected by this stuff and it's nonsense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree that's a big switch, because I know you've been using Apple for a while now, at least, I think, the whole time that I've known you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that might be about right. I'm pulling up on at least 10 years. Prior to that, I was an Android man through and through, but even my laptop, I think I'm going to switch over to Pop OS as my daily driver. I'll have some secondary machines if I have to because of different applications, but I'm out. That's it, I'm out. Thanks, no, thanks, I won't off this ride.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's weird. It's weird coming from. I have so many thoughts going on in my head and I want to get your opinion on them. First of all, I just want to make the statement of you know, I've always thought that Apple has done such a good job with their privacy commercials and showing consumers that they care about their privacy, and then they do something like this. Do you think that the companies, the apps themselves, do you think that those companies knew about this? And is there an advantage for this feature being automatically turned on to those apps for those companies?
Speaker 1:Looks like advantage is all Apple at the moment 's all coming up.
Speaker 2:It's all coming up, apple at the moment so I wonder if there's something to where, like calling all companies that have an app. If you're listening to this, I mean that'd be pretty cool. If you are probably not they're powerless.
Speaker 2:The wall garden belongs to apple right like what I'm saying, though, is could those companies do a call out like go into your app settings if you don't want this turned on and turn it off, like that could be a good thing for them to kind of promote as the company to show their privacy, it's true, you know that's true, at least spreading some awareness to their end users.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we'll allow it. We'll allow it. The challenge is, those organizations don't have any real power beyond that voice. Right, the iOS ecosystem is Apple's holy to control. They decide they don't want you on the platform. Legally, right Like. Right, that's it. Right Like go back to the Fortnite debacle where they changed the rules. The Fortnite debacle where they changed the rules. They enabled the ability to buy whatever the in-game money is directly in-game, which violates Apple's terms of service. They want any application that has the ability to make in-app purchases. They want you to make those in-app purchases through Apple because they get a cut Automatic 30%. The folks that make Fortnite I can't remember their name now. Someone else will have to fill in that blank for me they took this all the way to court and they were like no, and while it was all being hashed out in court, in that meantime Apple removed Fortnite from the app store altogether If you were playing the game on-.
Speaker 2:Tim Sweeney.
Speaker 1:Tim Sweeney yeah, actually, that's the founder of the company. Yeah, yeah, yeah, tim Sweeney Games developer. Yep, yes, yes, epic Games, epic Games, that's it, epic Games. And so they pulled the game from being able to be played on any iOS device. There weren't a lot of people playing it on iOS best I know For what it's worth. I had tried it on iOS once many years ago and when it got pulled I was like, whatever, I don't really game anyways, it didn't really affect me, but it kind of sucked. It's like oh no, you can't play anymore. You can play it again now on iOS devices through a different mechanism.
Speaker 1:Right, there's a number of different ways you can still get about it, but the point is Apple's control over their ecosystem is a dictatorship. I might argue rightfully so. It's their platform, but they are now so large and so ubiquitous in everyone so many I shouldn't say everyone, but so many people's lives certainly not around the globe. Around the globe, android phones are still very much competing well on market share. The problem there is you have lots of other privacy issues. Anyone who's bought I'm just going to pick on some folks here too, so try not to get too offended. Tech companies. But Samsung, samsung phone. It comes loaded with all kinds of adware, spyware. I'd go as far as call it malware. Quite frankly, I think it's malicious and it's intense, even if not its behavior, but it's malicious and it's a behavior for sure. So there isn't a lot the app developers can do, to my knowledge, but yeah you know it's on apple I agree.
Speaker 2:I think, um, we're coming to a point, and you know, in 2025. Besides insurance and car mechanic fraud, there's this Apple thing the way that Apple is nowadays. The products they're putting out, they're not really that. The phones aren't selling as much because it's not as exciting. It's the same thing every single year. There's no real change or excitement or innovation, and it's um, I don't know, could you ever see the fall of apple? Um, from some of these kind of things?
Speaker 1:no, I mean it would take a lot to knock apple they have their their revenue stream is also expertly diversified, like kudos to them, rightudos to them.
Speaker 1:We could sit here and list all of the different lines of businesses they have, but they have Apple TV, they have MacBooks, they have phones, they have tablets. They've got tons of services. They've got cloud services and storage. They're very, very well diversified. There's no two ways about it. Apple's not going to fall off tomorrow and, as grumpy as many of us may get about this, this may not even touch their bottom line. It might not. The best way to vote is get the hell off the platform. But again, where are you going to go to? Is the problem right? A lot of your other choices are just as fraught with privacy problems. Unless you understand and know how to navigate those problems yourself, that's a problem.
Speaker 2:So we need somebody with privacy in mind to create their own cell phone.
Speaker 1:There's a beautiful, amazing, maybe two or three episodes on Darknet Diaries on the topic of privacy-hooked cell phones. It's a wild, wild ride. I highly advise anyone to go listen to those episodes and the show in general. Shout out to Darknet Diaries. I love the show. Yeah, it's a good show, but one of the things that and I'm just going to spoil it, so if you don't want this to be spoiled, you should mute for the next 30 odd seconds. Make it 60 just to be safe. I might say more than that.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that he talks about in the show is that there really are no privacy-focused phones that they could actually find. Many of the privacy-focused phones were designed for criminal use, like explicitly for the purpose of criminal use, and it turns out that one of the last existing ones, the guy who built it, got caught no one really knows when, and then he disappeared for a while. Then he came back and he released a whole new phone and they were being sold to criminals all over Europe and Eastern Europe. And it turns out that these phones had a backdoor that allowed the US government and a couple of other entities to just automatically get copies of all of the messages being sent back and forth to people. So when you send a message to someone else, it would automatically also send the copy of that message side channel elsewhere. Right, right, right, right, right. Now again, the argument here was that, look, they created a device that they knew was going to be sold to criminals for criminal activity, and so they leveraged it to that aim. The problem, of course, is exactly that Even if you create a legitimate, completely privacy-preserving mobile device, it will find its way into the hands of criminals, of course.
Speaker 1:So what? We don't not sell cars because people use them to run people over, right? Like we don't not sell cutlery because people use them this to stab people like. So what? Like we damn sure don't not sell guns because people shoot schools up. So you know, like we? This is the weird place to draw the line. Oh, but my privacy's and my the kids? Like shouldn't we think about the kids? Yes, we should think about the kids. They're dying every day in schools. Let's think about the kids. I understand that there are legitimate privacy reasons and security reasons why we don't want criminals to be able to have pedophile rings easily administered through privacy-preserving technology, but I also don't want them dying up gunshots either in the fourth grade. One of those things seems really easy to solve for the other one, also easy to solve for. It's so what there's a to that point.
Speaker 2:There is I do you know about that one phone that's like it kind of takes away social media and it makes it your phone simple. I forget the name of it.
Speaker 1:It's like a black phone or yeah, I think I've seen it, there might be a couple like that, like they. It has just the bare essentials inside of it. It removes those, like you know, other wi-fi antennas and I think it doesn't even have a camera and it's like a hardware, a microphone, so that you can like physically disable it with like a dip switch kind of thing yeah those are pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Those are cool. I would say those are probably the closest to probably a healthy relationship with with your phone nowadays in terms of controlling and not having to kind of escape from social media and all that stuff. But I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'll have to explore myself how far down that hole I even want to go, because, I'm not going to lie to you, I've gotten very, very used to having the luxuries, like everyone else has, of having a smartphone. It's awesome, it's excellent. I have not gotten comfortable with the overreach that technology companies have.
Speaker 2:Well, so back to the whole latest on the iOS update. If you haven't updated it yet and you do, or you have updated it and you want to take a look at this, you go into your settings, you go into your apps and for each app, you have to go into each app and go into Siri and turn that feature off for each one.
Speaker 1:It found a way to disable it system-wide? If it exists, someone certainly should comment and weigh in. I didn't see it and I didn't hear anyone else mention it, but otherwise it's a righteous pain in the butt, especially since you have to do it also across all devices, which this is how you know it's shenanigans right Like iOS, can track everything you do across devices. You can take a phone call across devices. You can move seamlessly from a FaceTime video from your phone to your laptop, to your tablet, without skipping a heartbeat. You can do everything seamlessly across it, except for preserve your privacy.
Speaker 2:That's wild. I wonder if something's going to happen with something about this.
Speaker 1:And I can't wait for the EU to smack them around. Come on, eu. Of course, what will happen is I'll just get further jelly of all my European brethren when they have more privacy protections than I do, because just because the EU slaps their head doesn't mean they'll do it to fix our states.
Speaker 2:Well, this is a way to keep informed. So if you weren't aware of this, hopefully this helps and you can go do something about it. If you care about your privacy I imagine anyone listening to the show actually does, or you know if not, you're just doing it for the entertainment, then I'm glad that we entertain you. We are here for both. Yeah, hopefully this was informative and this is fascinating. I mean, this is why this world that we live in, this tech world that we live in, is so fascinating because things like this continue to happen, and maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that keeps us on our toes. Hopefully the smarter people out there like yourself, gabe, or you know others that can invent things or create technologies to to make things better Hopefully we'll have some people working on that kind of stuff right now. Yeah, anything else you want to talk about? We got coming on next week. We promised.
Speaker 1:Dave Dave.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got Dave coming on. We had to reschedule with him, but we have him coming on, so that'll release.
Speaker 2:Tell the listeners give them a little tease about Dave. So Dave works for he's co-founder and regulatory expert over at a company called Runway Strategies. Real smart guy knows a lot about legislative things like that. We're going to learn his backstory. Learn a little bit more about what is going to actually be happening. Monday is the 20th inauguration, so new office, new administration is coming in for the US MLK Day Monday is MLK Day MLK Day as well?
Speaker 1:Yeah, then it's Inauguration Day.
Speaker 2:See, in order, it goes MLK Day, you know what's funny, you know, what's funny Is that we're talking about all these like privacy things. Was that story true about how his phone was tapped in his hotel room, martin Luther King? Story true about how his phone was tapped in his hotel room um martin luther king? Yeah, yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 1:See, that's what I'm saying it's like it's all lining up right now all the privacy issues. They spied on everything that man did. He couldn't use the bathroom without somebody taking two pictures from two different angles I can't even imagine having that.
Speaker 2:I wonder if he even knew about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, yes, he was aware that he was being watched, followed by our own government, by private citizens, trying to enact that kind of change at a time when the world was vehemently against change of that nature, in particular social justice, change of any sort. Yeah, no, he was intimately aware.
Speaker 2:He was intimately aware, crazy man that was happening around that time. I don't know. That's just fascinating.
Speaker 1:Scary, yeah, very scary, fascinating, scary, yeah, very scary, scary, because his activities clearly angered some very violent people. So in the end he met his demise at the business end of the rifle From a distance.
Speaker 2:How dare somebody try to help give equal rights to all humans. Right.
Speaker 1:And that's noteworthy too right. His fight wasn't just for people of color by any stretch of the imagination. This was very much always about class. This was always wealth warfare.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah. So Monday MLK, which is always celebratory, and then, funny enough, it's the 20th inauguration. All right, well, I think that's all we have for this week.
Speaker 1:But tune in next week. We've got some guests on and, as we promised, this year will continue to get more exciting. So welcome, come along for the ride and go turn off all those damn privacy invasive settings in your device. Man, do it Before you join us next week. You've got seven days to do it. Make it happen, do it now.
Speaker 2:Three two, one. Now Do it, see you guys.
